Taillebois, Lucy (b. 1070, d. 1128)

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (125:27), (132A:26), (132D:26), (246B:25). Does not identify her parents.

Baroness Spalding. Cockayne's "Complete Peerage" states that she was widowed twice (first to Ivo Tallebois, then, secondly, to Roger FitzGerold, to whom she bore William de Roumare, Earl of Lincoln) before she married the Lord of Clare.
Cockayne states that Ivo was her first husband. He states that the name of Lucy's father does not seem to have been preserved, but that there is satisfactory evidence that her mother was da. of William Mallet.

I have seen her given as a dau. of AELFGAR, Earl of East Anglia. Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (176A:3) acknowledges only one known daughter of AELFGAR & ELFGIFU - EDITH (RIN 1016).

According to ""A Genalogy of the Southworths (Southards), by Samuel G. Webber (1905) [GC 929.2 So 8766w] avail. at the Allen Co. Lib. in Ft. Wayne, IN : (footnote p. 432) "Lucy was the dau. of Algar III [AELFGAR (RIN 1017)], but modern genealogist reject the claim.

Note: Notes
Per Weis' "Ancestral Roots . . ." (121E:18), her husband, ROLLO,
participated in a Viking attack on Bayeux, where her father, COUNT
BERENGER, was killed. Rollo took Poppe as his "Danish wife".
Betty Rockswold posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL that:
. 'The historian Dudo wrote that among the defenders of Bayeau was Count Berengar of Senlis. He was killed in the fighting and his daughter Poppa was taken prisoner. Poppa was allotted to Duke Rollo. He proceeded to contract with her for a "Danish marriage", which means he would remain married to her as long as he lived in Normandy, but the marriage would be null and void if he moved away, as she was taken as the spoils of war".

David Geen, Editor of "The American Genealogist postd to GEN-MEDIEVAL
on 12/09/99 that
. "Katherine Keats-Rohan, in her article article on "Poppa of Bayeux and Her Family" in the 75th-anniversary issue of TAG (July-October 1997). . . accepts, as I think do most scholars, the early identification of Poppa's father as Berengar, marquis of Neustria. She then works with the hypothesis that Poppa's name indicates descent from the Popponen, a dynastic family that tended to bestow the name "Poppo" on the second (or at least not the eldest) son. She proposes that Poppa was a granddaughter of Heinrich of Thuringia and his wife Ingeltrude, daughter of Louis the Pious [RIN 1212], which would give this family a Carolingian descent; Heinrich was a brother of Poppo II. She suggests two hypotheses for the connection between Heinrich and Poppa: Either Berengar of Neustria or his wife Adalind was a child of Heinrich. Later commentary on the Popponen, with pedigree charts, appears in Donald C. Jackman's _Criticism and Critique: Sidelights on the Konradiner_ (Oxford, 1997), the first (and currently the only) volume in a major series entitled _Prosopographica et Genealogica_, edited by K. S.
B. Keats-Rohan and Christian Settipani."

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (121E:18). No parents given.
"Todd A. Farmerie" posted to soc.genealogy.medieval
on 22 Nov 1996 (in part):
Subject: Re: ancestry of CONAN I, Duke of Brittany
"I still follow the work of Lot and others from the turn of the century, who show Juhel/Judiceal Berenger [RIN 1799] as son of a Count Berenger, a Frank who rooted in Brittany toward the end of the 9th century, and who is perhaps identical with the Berenger of Bayeux that Rollo ran into.

Todd Farmerie later, on 19 Dec 1999, posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL that Dudo and/or William of Juminges stated that Rollo sacked Bayeux, and carried away Poppa the daughter of Count Berenger. That he was count OF Bayeaux was never specified, IIRC, but he was a count, and Bayeux was part of his territory."

Betty Rockswold posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL, but could not cite the source, that Berenger ruled in Bayeau from 889 until before 931. He was married to the daughter of Duke Gurvand.

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots . . ." (149:22), (246A:22).
The "Dictionary of Royal Lineage", under the Dukes of Saxony on page 576, under the listing for Bernhard II, states that he married Eilika, d. of Henrik, marquis of Schweinfort. Their first child, Otto, was born in 1042. On page 693, under the Dukes of Swabia, under the entry for Hermann II, it is stated that Hermann's daughter, Gerberga, m. Heinrich, count of Schweinfort (d. 1017).

Page 35 of "The Orgins of Modern Germany" by Geoffrey Barraclough, states : "But the culmination of the process was reached under Henry II when, following the rebellion of Count Henry of Schweinfurt, the Margrave of the Nordgau, in alliance with Bohemia and Poland, the King realized the necessity of erecting a safer defence for the heart of the country on both sides of the Main than Otto I and Otto II had succeeded in creating in the margravate of the Nordgau. With this in view Henry II destroyed the power of the Schweinfurt family and, in 1007, set up in its place on the upper Main the new bishoprick of Bamberg . . . "

Note: Notes
Stuart's "Royalty for Commoners," (102:35).
Allstrom's "Dictionary of Royal Lineage" calls her a daughter of HERMANN II, DUKE OF SWABIA (RIN 1611).

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (132A:25), (132B:25).
Cokayne's "Complete Peerage" (Chester, p.164).

According to the "Dictionary of National Biography", in the article on Hugh of Avaranches, Earl of Chester, Richard's father, THURSTAN (TOUSTEIN) was unfaithful to DUKE WILLIAM [of Normandy (RIN 798)] in 1040 and helped HENRY, KING OF FRANCE (RIN 1198) in his invasion of Normandy. Richard remained loyal and made his father's peace with the
duke.

Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (295:33).

Source: (Name)
Title: Hahn-Powell-Ford.FTW
Media: Other

Data:
Text: Date of Import: Feb 23, 2001

Source: (Name)
Title: Hahn-Powell-Ford.FTW
Media: Other

Data:
Text: Date of Import: Feb 23, 2001

Source: (Name)
Title: Hahn-Powell-Ford.FTW
Media: Other

Data:
Text: Date of Import: Feb 23, 2001

Note: Notes
Weis" "Ancestral Roots. . ." (63:26), (124:26), (124A:26), (125:26).
He was Lord of Cruelly in Calvados. King William Rufus gave the honour of Gloucester, as well as other estates, to Robert as a reward for services rendered to him and to his father, WILLIAM THE CONQUERER (RIN 798). He was, however, never styled as an Earl. About 1105 King HENRY I made him hereditary Governor of Caen in Normandy.

Note: 1st Earl of Arundel and Shrewsbury. His wife, MABEL, brought him the Lordship af Alcenon in Normandy. When WILLIAM THE CONQUERER invaded England in 1066, Roger remained in Normandy as regent. He joined WILLIAM in England in 1067 and was created Earl of Arundel. Upon the dismemberment of Mercia in 1070, he was also given land in the Welsh Marches and became Earl of Shrewsbury.

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (124:26), (185:1).
Schwennicke's ES 3:637-41.

1st Earl of Arundel and Shrewsbury. His wife, MABEL, brought him the Lordship af Alcenon in Normandy. When WILLIAM THE CONQUERER invaded England in 1066, Roger remained in Normandy as regent. He joined WILLIAM in England in 1067 and was created Earl of Arundel. Upon the dismemberment of Mercia in 1070, he was also given land in the Welsh Marches and became Earl of Shrewsbury.

Note: "Todd A. Farmerie" posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@@@@rootsweb.com on 09 Jan 1998
Subject: Re: Early Montgomery:
Kathleen Thompson.
The Norman Aristocracy before 1066: the Example of the Montgomerys. in Historical Research 60:251-63:
"Robert de Torigny has Joscelina, daughter of Gunnor's sister Wevia, marrying Hugh, and mother of Earl Roger. This is contradicted by two early documents. One, a discussion of an impediment to marriage calls Joscelina daughter of Senfrida (another sister of Gunnor), and this is clearly correct. The second calls Earl Roger the son of another Roger, so some genealogists have solved the problem by making Joscelina the wife of this Roger (I) rather than Hugh. Thompson's solution, which is highly likely, is that Joscelina and Hugh had this Roger (I), who was in turn the father of Earl Roger."

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots . . ." 108:23.
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (54:34) & (291:34).

Todd A. Farmerie reviews the article "Autour de Roger de Vieux: les alliances matrimoniales des comtes de Carcassonne" from the Annales du Midi, 108:165-187, by Thierry Stasser in a 16 July 1998 posting to GEN-MEDIEVAL (subject: Carcassonne (Toulouse and Rouergue)). Farmerie
thinks this is the best work done to date with these families. Per Farmerie, Stasser's article verifies this generation.

Note: Notes
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners (360:36), calls him Ives de Creil & Belleme; Count of Alcenon and Domfort; had Alcenon and Belesme as a gift from RICHARD II, DUKE OF NORMANDY and Balistarius as a gift from LOUIS IV, KING OF FRANCE. Stuart shows him as the son of IVES and GEILE.
Turton's "Plantagenet Ancestry", has him as the son of Fulk, Lord of Belleme (RIN 4476*) and Rotasia [Turton calls her Rolais].

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (98A:24), (118:23).
Cokayne's "Complete Peerage" (Appendix D to v.VII, pp. 710-711). About 1063 he took a leading part in persuading DUKE WILLIAM OF NORMANDY (RIN 798) to recall RALPH DE TOSNY [TOENI] (RIN 3527) and HUGH DE GRANDMESNIL (RIN 1026) from exile. He was at Fecamp with DUKE WILLIAM in 1066. Simon married 3 times; 1. ISABEL, 2. Unk. - no issue, 3. AGNES.

Note: Notes
Cokayne's "Complete Peerage" (Appendix D to v.VII, p.708). He began the building of Montfort. Besides SIMON, he left another son, Mainer, and a dau., Eve, who m. Wiiliam Crispin.
Per "The Dictionary of Royal Lineage", he bacame baron of Monfort - Bretagne in 1003. He is therein referred to as "Amauri II, son of Guilliam, baron of Montfort, who died in 1003". He is said to be descended from Baldwin, count of Flanders (RIN 2175) and Judith, the daughter of Emporer Charles the Bald (RIN 2176).



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Note: Notes
Cokayne's "Complete Peerage" (Appendix D to v.VII, p.708). All we know of him is that he was AMURAI's father. His great grandson, AMURAI, married a dau. of the [BALDWIN], COUNT OF HAINAULT and afterwards repudiated her. This may imply consanguinity and that William not only came from Hainault, but was connected with the ruling house.
Per "The Dictionary of Royal Lineage", he is said to be descended from Baldwin, count of Flanders (RIN 2175) and Judith, the daughter of Emporer Charles the Bald (RIN 2176). There would be approximately a century between the marriage of Baldwin and Judith in 862 and William's birth.

Note: Notes
"Europaeische Stammtafein" in II:79 calls her Adelaida de Barcelona, dau. of RAMON BORREL I and widow of ROGER I DE TOSNY, but III:705 says that "N. DE BARCELONA" was ROGER's first wife, and that it was his second wife, Godehildis, who married Evreux.

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (121:23), (121E:22), (130:23).
His nickname, "The Devil", was earned, at least in part, from the fact that he killed his brother, RICHARD, in order to make himself Duke of Normandy. AKA "The Magnificent"

Note: Notes
"COLONIAL AND REVOLUTIONARY LINEAGES IN AMERICA" has JUHAEL, COUNT OF RENNES (circa 900) as the father of Martin de Rennes, Seigneur de Vitre.

Note: Notes
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (334:36) referes to him as Count of Rennes and a leader against the Norsemen. Stuart identifies him a the son of Paskwitan II, Count of Rennes (RIN 2198*).
Per "The Bretons" by Galliou and Jones, a 15 year remission from Viking raiders in Brittany brutally ended in 913. In the next few years several Viking states, similiar to the one forming in Normandy, were established in Brittany. The county of Nantes was abandoned to the Vikings in 921 by KING ROBERT I (RIN 1208) of France. WILLIAM LONGSWORD (RIN 1311), Duke of the Normans, aqdvanced through the Contenin and the Avaranchin.
About 936, WILLIAM assented to the return to Brittany of Alain
Barbetote, Count of Cournaille from England - the same year that LOUIS IV D"OUTREMER (RIN 1617) returned to France from England to reestablish Carolingian rule there. An earlier attempt by Alain to regain his inheritance in 931 had failed.
While other Breton counts were seeking refuge at the English court, Berenger of Rennes alone remained to withstand the Viking onslaught. He was surrounded by them. Direct contact between the rulers of Brittany and the Kings of France gradually ceased in the course of the 10th century. No Duke of Brittany
acknowledged fealty of performed homage directly to the King of France until 1099. Following Alain Barbatorte's death in 952, leaving no clear heir, a power vacuum in the duchy was filled by the Counts of Rennes.
"Todd A. Farmerie" posted to soc.genealogy.medieval
on 22 Nov 1996 (in part):
Subject: Re: ancestry of CONAN I, Duke of Brittany
"I still follow the work of Lot and others from the turn of the century, who show Juhel/Judiceal Berenger as son of a Count Berenger, a Frank who rooted in Brittany toward the end of the 9th century, and who is perhaps identical with the Berenger of Bayeux that Rollo ran into. I am deeply suspicious of any attempt to harmonize all of the breton lines into a single royal family, suspecting instead that from the time of Nominoe, there were several entities (i.e. Vannes, Nantes, etc.) of which the king/count was simply the most powerful at the time."
BERENGER, COUNT OF BAYEUX (RIN 1314), father of ROLLO's wife, POPPA, could, if Farmerie is correct, be his father.

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (185:1), does not give his parents, but calls him "prince of Belleme, Seigneur of Alcenon (a kinsman of ROBERT, DUKE OF NORMANDY).
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners (360:33)

Note: Notes
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (334:36) identifies him as the father of of JUHAEL BERENGER, COUNT OF RENNES (RIN 1799), and says he was Count of Rennes 895-903.
Per "The Bretons" by Galliou and Jones, his years as Count were relatively free of Viking raids.

Note: Notes
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners (360:37). Seigneur de Creil in the
Bauuvoise, Regis Boloistarius.

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots" (155:19), says he married Adele of Louvain, but conceeds that Moriarity and Saillot say he married the daughter of Hugh II of Dagsbourg. As Weis' line 155 continues with the son, Lambert, I am holding the possibility that Raynier could have two wives - each bearing
one of the two children of Raynier who appear in my genealogy. Also mentioned (106:21).

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (140:17), (155:17), (240:17), identifies CHARLES II as her father, but does not name her mother. The Hull University database on the www has ERMENTRUDE as her mother.

Note: Notes

Weis" "Ancestral Roots. . ." (49:17), identifies her as dau. of CHARLES II, wife of Hugh [Count of Maine], Count of Bourges, and, by Hugh, mother of RICHILDE [of Maine]. However, see the next note.

"Todd A. Farmerie" posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@@@@rootsweb.com on 01 Apr 1999
Subject: Re: Richilde de Blois, Thibaud de Tours:
. "As best I can tell, this solution was suggested by Depoin, where it was picked up by Moriarty, and from him Sheppard. The problem is that Rotilde {of France] didn't marry Hugh. She married Roger, Count of Maine (as shown by Werner), who was a kinsman of Hugh [Count of Maine]. Thus, as presented by Keats-Rohan, in her recent article on the early 'Hugonid' COunts of Maine, it is likely that Richilde [of Maine] wife of Thibaud [Vicompte of Troyes] was daughter of Roger [Count of Maine] and Rothilde [of France]."

Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (357:36) for her marriage to ROGER, COUNT OF MAINE.

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots . . ." (155:18), (240:18a).
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (206:38) refers to him as "the Burgundian opponent of the Capets".

In the early 880s, his brother, BOSON, king of Provence, made him count of Autun. By 890, Richard, who, by then, was known by his nickname, "The Justiciar" was also master of Sens, Auxerre, and Troyes. This was
the Frankish portion of the ancient kingdom of Burgundy and was destined to become the Duchy of Burgundy under the Capetian kings of France.

Some sources have ERMENGARDE (RIN 1237) as his daughter. This is possible, but not nearly proven, and there is much debate on the topic.

Settipani's "La prehistoire des Capetiens" shows no daughters at all.

Note: Notes
Settipani's "La prehistoire des Capetiens".
Weis" "Ancestral Roots. . ." (49:16).
Stuart's "Royalty for Commoners (206:39) calls him Budwine, Count of Italy & Metz, Lay Abbot of Gorze.
Stewart Baldwin posted to soc.genealogy.medieval on 1 Nov 1996 (in part):
Subject: Re: SAVOY
"See Settipani, pp. 388ff. Settipani conjectures that Bivin was a descendant in the direct male line of Hieronymus, son of Charles Martel, but none of the intervening generations is proven."
Sewart Baldwin posted to soc.genealogy.medieval on 10 Nov 1996 (in part):
Subject: Re: Will the real Boso please stand up (was Re: SAVOY)
"That King Boso was the son of count Bivin [or Budwine] is proven by the contemporary "Annals Bertiniani" ("Annals of St. Bertin" in English), under the year 869, where Boso is explicitly called a son of Bivin. Boso's maternal grandfather was another Boso, an Italian count. It was this Italian Boso who was the father-in-law of Lothar II and Bivin." . . .
"The confusion that has led some to make Theodoric [Thierry I "the Treasurer" (RIN 1240)] the father of Boso [King of Provence (RIN 2137)] is briefly discussed by Settipani. Here is the short version. Theodoric did have a son named Richard [RIN 3473], who has been erroneously
identified by some with duke Richard of Burgundy (King Boso's brother) [i.e. RICHARD THE JUSTICIAR (RIN 1238)], and this erroneous identification has led to Boso being incorrectly called the son of Theodoric."

Note: Notes
Settipani's "La prehistoire des Capetiens". Does not give a name. Stuart's "Royalty for Commoners (206:39) & (112:40).

My source for Richilda as Theodoric's wife is the genealogical chart on p. 281 of Christopher Cope's "The Lost Kingdom of Burgundy".

Note: Notes
Settipani's "La prehistoire des Capetiens".
Weis' "Ancestral Roots . . ." (141B:17).
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (343:39), citing ES I:57, Calls him Boso II, Count of Vienne, King of Lower Burgundy.
Boso was Count of Vienne and governor of Burgundy under the Carolingians. His wife, ERMENGARDE, felt that as she was the daughter of an emporer, she ought to be married to more than a mere count. Also, she considered herself as soverign of both Italy and Burgundy in her own right. She persuaded Pope John VIII to crown Boso king of Provence.
The years following the death of his father-in-law, KING LOUIS II of Italy without a male heir were a period of civil war between several rival claimants to the throne. From 875 to 877, CHARLES THE BALD, King of France (RIN 1620), was nominally also King of Italy. Boso was his main representative. Boso was an unsuccessful claimant in 879.

Note: Notes
Settipani's "La prehistoire des Capetiens".
Weis" "Ancestral Roots. . ." (49:16).

Note: Notes
Per Stuart's "Royalty for Commoners," (175:37), she was probably an Alsacian Etichonid.

Note: Notes
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (338:37)
Some sources call her Ludmilla.

H. Jaekel, in "Die grafen von Mittelfriesland aus dem Geschlecht Konig Radbods" (The Count of Middle Friesland from the Evil King Radbods; Gotha, 1895), contains [I am told - I have not seen this source myself] copious citations and quotations from original documents. Jaekel is emphatic that Reginhild was a descendant of Radbod, a 6th century
Frisian "king". This descent from Radbod supposes that GISELA was not Ranghilde's mother, but that DIETRICH [GISELA's other husband]] had a wife before GISLEA, an unnamed daughter of Reginmund, a native Frisian
noble said to be descended Radbod. Ragnhilde is supposed to be a child of that union.

Note: Notes
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (338:38), (339:38), called N.N. Turton's "Plantagenet Ancestry" names him Reginhart.

Heinrich Banniza von Bazan, _Deutsche Geschichte in Ahnentafeln_, vol. 1 (Berlin: Metzner, 1940), p. 27, Tafel 1, courtesy of John Carmi Parsons, says he was Immed, Count in Saxony, d. 891/2.

Note: Notes
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (338:38).
Don Stone posted to gen-medieval-l@@@@rootsweb.com on 5 Dec 1988 (in part) Subject: Egbert of Wessex and the Saxon (Carolingian) Egbert
....Banniza and Muller (1939, p. 27) state that the Saxon duke Liudolf, grandfather of Henry the Fowler, was a son of Egbert and Ida. They also propose that Mathilde (grandmother of Henry's wife Mathilde), who was wife of the Saxon count Immed and abbess of Herford (Hervorden) when she
died ca. 915, might be a daughter of Egbert and Ida, but, chronologically, she is more likely to be a granddaughter.

Banniza v. Bazan, Heinrich, and Richard Muller. 1939. Deutsche Geschichte in Ahnentafeln. Berlin: Alfred Metzner Verlag.



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Note: Notes
ES VII:42 shows him as Otto I, Count of Chiny (d.1013), son of Arnulf I, Count of Chiny (d.982) and Matilda.
Settipani's "La prehistoire des Capetiens", however, discusses the matter at length and identifies him as shown here.

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots" (143:16) states that she was "prob. (not proven) dau. of Bego, Count of Paris (d. 861) or dau. of Count Girard. Also mentioned (148:16).
ic posted to the soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup on 9 Sep 1996 (in part):
Subject: Re: Wives of Charles the Simple & Louis the Stammerer
[CHARLES THE BALD] made Louis [the stammerer] divorce Ansgarde and had him remarried to Adelaide. This 2nd marriage took place in February, probably 875. Ansgarde died 2 November between 880 and 882, and was buried in Notre Dame de Reims.
Adelaide was not a daughter of Bego of Paris. He died in 816 (the confusion in Stuart is probably due to a charter of Chas the Bald, dated 861, which is false, as demonstrated by G.Tessier, _Recueil des chartes de Charles le Chauve_ etc). However she was descended from him through her paternal grandmother Suzanna who was Bego's daughter (K.Werner, "Die Nachkommen die Karl der Grosse", _Karl der Grosse_ (ed
W.Braunfels) vol IV, 432-9, which traces her family). She was as stated elsewhere, daughter of Adalard. . .

Note: Notes
ic posted to the soc.genealogy.medieval
newsgroup on 9 Sep 1996 (in part):
Subject: Re: Wives of Charles the Simple & Louis the Stammerer Louis [the stammerer] married twice. His first wife was Ansgarde daughter of Ct Hardoin and Guerimburga, a Neustrian noble family. He married her in March 862 without his father's permission, as did his brother Charles of Aquitaine who married the widow of Ct Humbert in the same year (Nelson,_Charles the Bald_, p204). By Ansgarde he had two sons (Louis III & Carloman II) and 3 daughters: Hildegarde, Gisela (who died c.884, married Robert Ct of Troyes, d.886), and Ermentrude, whose partner is unknown, but who had a daughter, Cunegund, who married Widric (Wigeric) Ct of Bidgau and Ct Palatine under Charles the Simple). Ansgarde had two brothers, Odo & Hardoin, who had both become counts
by 870. Although Louis's father (Chas the Bald) eventually sanctioned the union, some years later he made Louis divorce Ansgarde and had him remarried to Adelaide. This 2nd marriage took place in February, probably 875. Ansgarde died 2 November between 880 and 882, and was buried in Notre Dame de Reims.

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (140:15), (141B:15), (145:15), (240:16).
See the notes on Lothar's father, LOUIS THE PIOUS, for an overview of the events leading up to Lothar's succession to the title of Emporer. He is also known as King of Italy as he spent most of the decade from 831 to 841 there. The main reason for this was that his father had banished him there. There was constant conflict between the two of them. Lothar
used Italy primarily as a political and military base for his activities in the north. From the time of the Treaty of Verdun in 843 until his death in 855, he ruled the "Middle Kingdom" which stretched from the North Sea to Rome. Although holding the title of Emporer, he had no authority over the lands of his brother LOUIS THE GERMAN to the east or his other brother, CHARLES THE BALD to the west. When Lothar died in 855, his
kingdom was divided between LOUIS and CHARLES. His children became rulers of small portions of his realm. LOUIS II, though nominally his father's successor as Emporer, was in actual fact merely King of Italy. LOTHAR became King of Lorraine. Charles became the first King of Provence.

Note: Notes
Weis" "Ancestral Roots. . ." (53:20), (101:20), (106:20), (107:19),
(141:20), (144A:20).
Note that there is a "minority opinion" held by some serious scholars that Adelaide's Aquitainian descent is insufficiaently proven.

"Todd A. Farmerie" posted to
GEN-MEDIEVAL@@@@rootsweb.com on 22 Oct 1997 (in part):
Subject: Re: Poppa (was: grandfather of Hugh Capet's wife)
"I was reading an article by Constance Bouchard over the weekend on the naming patters for Medieval women (it was in Medieval
Prosopography, vol. 14, no. 1, pp. 1-?). She stated that Adelaide, wife of HUGH CAPET, is of unknown parentage. She was not from the Poitou/Aquitaine family, that resulting from the misreading of a document. She remains unidentified (although the names Adelaide and Gisela (given to her daughter, and not a Robertin name) might suggest a link with the later Caroligians - this is my own speculation, not Bouchard's)."

Christian Settipani in "La prehistoire des Capetiens" (1993), pp.
415-419, discusses questions raised about the identity of Adelaide,
wife of HUGH CAPET. He explicitly comments on Bouchard's article,
"Patterns of women's names in royal lineages, ninth-eleventh centuries," Medieval prosopography, ix(1)(1988), pp. 1-32, as well as other objections by her and by others. He concludes the the objections are wanting, and that WILLIAM I of Poutou [III of Aquitaine] is Adelaide's father (as in ES ii, 76).

Note: Notes
Per Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (141:17), "Charlemagne and His World" (Heer), shows OTTO's wife as dau. (illeg.) of Arnulf, King of Germany, Emp. (RIN 1443), & Oda of Bavria. . . however, Brandenburg shows no such dau. for Arnulf. Isenburg shows Hedwig as dau. of Heinrich, d.886, Markgraf of the Netherlands. Saillot says OTTO's wife was Hedwig, dau.
of Henri, Compte de la Marche. Moriarity says Hedwig d. 24 Dec 903, does not identify parents.
William Addams Reitwiesner posted to soc.genealogy.medieval on 3 Apr 1997:
Subject: Re: Henry the Fowler's mother
"Is there any concensus on the ascent of Hedwige wife of Otto?
No. Actually, Stuart, for once, provides a reasonable review of the situation (although when it comes to showing the descent, he selects the same old bull). There seems to be a general concensus that the name Henry was brought to the family through Hedwige, but beyond that nothing. What can be rejected is the claim that she was daughter of Arnulf of Germany. This, unfortunately, was revived by Sheppard in
Ancestral Roots (6th and 7th) crediting Stimmel, but of the sources he cites, Moriarty, Brandenburg, Winkhaus and Isenburg (the ones I have available) say nothing of the sort. Stuart himself states that one of the remaining does not contain the descent, while the sole remaining source, Saillot, cannot stand above the others, even if it does have the descent (which I somehow doubt).
What is in ES?
The Schwennicke edition of ES, Band I, Tafel 3, says, about Heinrich's parents:
Otto, HERZOG VON SACHSEN (880), GRAF IN SUED-THUERINGEN (874), +30.XI.912; oo 869 Hathui, +(906).
Nothing more."
Matman posted to soc.genealogy.medieval on 9 Apr 1997:
Subject: Re: Henry the Fowler's mother
"There is quite a lot of german research into this. The current
consensus (as summarised by E.Hlawitschka, in Rheinische
Vierteljarhrblatter, 1974, p141ff) is that she was a daughter of
Margrave Henry who died at Paris against the Normans 28.8.886 (he also often appears with other titles: Duke of the Austrasians, is one of them). Her mother was (according to the same author) probably a granddaughter of St.Ida (d.c.820) and the Saxon Count Egbert (flor. 809-11)."
Keats-Rohan, in the article "Poppa of Bayeux and her family" (TAG lxxii,
Jul/Oct 1997, 187-204), identifies Hedwig's mother as Ingeltrude (RIN 9406*), daughter of EBERHARD, MARQUIS OF FRIULI, however. . .
abwilson@@@@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Alan B. Wilson) posted to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@@@@rootsweb.com on 21 Jul 1999
Subject: Re: Henry the Fowler's mother.
. "As far as I am presently aware, no reliable argument from
contemporary sources exists to support the Friuli descent. The
exhaustive and meticulous account of Charlemagne's descendants by K.F. Werner in the fourth volume of *Karl der Grosse: Lebenswerk und Nachleben* accepts contemporary evidence for the marriage of only one of the daughters of Louis the Pious' daughter Gisla (819X822-874) by Eberhard of Friuli: Heilwic (d. 895), who married first a Count Hucbald (d. 890) and then Roger, count at Laon (d. 926). The Ingeltrude who is named below as dying "after 840" was, according to Werner, born in 837 and died in 870, and he indicates no marriage for her nor for the other two daughters, Gisla (died a nun in 863) and Jutta (also died 863)."
KHF333@@@@aol.com posted to GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@@@@rootsweb.com
on 22 Jul 1999
Subject: Re: Henry the Fowler's mother.
. ". . . I have found nothing in the Keats-Rohan article that actually proves anything about this alleged descent. She is primarily engaged in the collection of a database of prosopography - with the eventual intent of documenting all names and sources from earlier records. Now this can indeed be confusing when one takes all this conflicting information and attempts to form conclusions from it. Her views on
this, to my mind, is a classic case of not seeing the forest for the trees."

Note: Notes
Per Stuarts' "Royalty For Commoners" (104:36), he was Count in Bidgau in the Methingau and of Verdun, Marquis of Antwerp and Eenam.

Note: Notes
Per Weis' "Ancestral Roots" (143:18), he was count in the Triergau and count paletine of Aachen. Also mentioned (149:21).
ic / Organization: Oxford University posted
to the soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup on 5 Oct 1996 (in Part):
Subject: Re: Sigefroid of Luxembourg
A royal charter of Charles the Simple (Lauer, Recueil, no 65) names "Count Widric, his wife Cunegund and one of his sons, that is our nephew (nepos) Adelbero". This Adelbero was Bp of Metz 929-62: strictly speaking he was grand-nephew (?) of Charles the Simple. Count Widric also appears as Wigeric in 899: he is often called Count of Bidgau, because he appears then in a charter for the church of Trier. By 916 he had become Count Palatine of Lotharingia (Lorraine) for Charles the Simple. He had died by 919, and Cunegund remarried Rikwin (Ricoin) Ct of Verdun. Rikwin was murdered in 923 by Boso, brother of King Raoul of France, at the suggestion, so he claimed, of Adelbero of Metz. Wigeric/ Widric did come from an influential family: the name is found across the region at this time, e.g., a Wigeric was Bp of Metz 916-27.

Note: Notes
From a Neustrian noble family. See notes on his daughter, ANSGARDE.

Note: Notes
See the notes on ODA (RIN 4532), which presents the possibility that Aeda was a daughter of PEPIN, KING OF ITALY (RIN 1194) and granddaughter of CHARLEMAGNE. This theory also identifies Aeda as this ODA's mother.
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (312:37), calls her Frederunda or
Hildeburg. No parents given.

E. Hlawitschka, _Rheinische Vierteljahrblatter_, (1974), p. 128,
identifies her as the daughter of PEPIN.

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (141:16), identifies him as husband of ODA and father of OTTO. Does not give parents.
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (92:38) gives his father as Bruno (RIN 6764*).
The "Dictionary of Royal Lineage" gives two wives for Ludolph: 1. Hedwig of Friuli; 2. ODA.

Note: Notes
Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (141:16) gives Oda as OTTO's mother. No attempt is made to identify Oda's parents. See the following note, whch presents the possibility that Oda was the
daughter of BILLIUNG, DUKE OF SAXONY and his wife, Aeda. (RIN 2164). AEDA is theorized to be a daughter of PEPIN, KING OF ITALY (RIN 1194) and granddaughter of CHARLEMAGNE.

Subject: Ottonian descent from Charlemagne
Date: 1997/04/28
Author: Matman
. "I came across this descent when I was looking up Henry the Fowler's ancestry, in an article by E. Hlawitschka in Rheinische Vierteljahrblatter, 1974, p128 . . .
. The evidence/argument for this descent goes like this:
There are a number of entries among a large collection of documents concerning the abbey of Corvey in Westphalia, Germany (_Codex traditionum Corbeiensium_, ed. J.Falke) concerning the ancestry of Countess Oda, wife of Ludolf, and grandmother of Henry the Fowler. These are:
_Nata fuit Oda ex Aeda seu Attala Caroli Magni filii anno 806_
(Falke, p760). That is "In the year 806 was born Oda by Aeda-Attala, daughter of Charles the Great". . There is a charter of the Bishop of Halberstadt in 1121, which
mentions _comitissa Oda regia stirpe orta_. That is "Countess Oda descended (or born of) the royal line"
. As Oda died in 913, it would seem unlikely that she was 107,
moreover her own parents are usually said to be Billung and Aeda.
. However Hlawitschka suggests she was actually the daughter of a daughter of Pippin IV of Italy (d.810). The evidence for this is:
. Another entry in these Corvey documents (K.Eckhardt, _Studia Corbeiensia_, II, p477) mentions that countess Oda had founded a community of nuns in honor of St.Laurent in 885. In this entry she is called _Oda comitissa Pippin regis Italiae ex filia neptis_. That is "Countess Oda _neptis_ of Pippin king of Italy, from a daughter." Now _neptis_ can mean niece, but the traditional meaning I think, is grand-daughter, which is the meaning which seems to make the most
sense here. So Oda was the grandaughter of Pippin IV, by one of his daughters.
. Einhard in his life of Charles (ch. 19), mentions the 5 daughters of king Pippin, who he says Charlemagne took care to bring up after the death of his son. One of these was called Atula, another Adalheid. Putting all this evidence together, it would seem likely that this Atula, daughter of Pippin of Italy, was the Aeda-Attala, who was confused as a daughter of Charlemagne himself, who later married a man called Billung, and was the mother of Oda, wife of Ludolf. Hlawitschka
goes on to suggest that it was this Aeda-Attala/Atula daughter of Pippin of Italy who was born in 806, rather than Oda herself.
. This would mean however, that Luitgarde, daughter of Oda was distantly related to her husband Louis II (d.882) of Germany."

Note: Notes
Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (389:36): count in the Drenthe and in Salland, probably a son of Eberhard.